Robinson 发表于 2011-3-18 20:09

請教一下 Hot Wheels 彈射飛車一類玩具需要 Projectile clause 嗎?

大概是一架 diecast
放進發射器裡
然後發出在路軌上飛走
看了幾份這類產品的報告
都沒有 projectile 的 clause
但明明它們的 stored energy 蠻強的
是否 projectile 只會考慮槍 弓箭?

hewei 发表于 2011-3-19 10:35

引用第0楼Robinson于2011-03-18 20:09发表的 請教一下 Hot Wheels 彈射飛車一類玩具需要 Projectile clause 嗎? :
大概是一架 diecast
放進發射器裡
然後發出在路軌上飛走
看了幾份這類產品的報告
都沒有 projectile 的 clause
.......
此要求指適合於自由飛行的彈射玩具
請看如下:
4.21.1These requirements apply to toys that are intended to launch projectiles into free flight by means of a discharge mechanism in which the kinetic energy of the projectile is determined by the toy and not by the user.
4.21.1.5 The aforementioned requirements shall not apply to any discharge mechanism
incapable of storing energy independent of the user, or intended to propel a ground-based
vehicular toy along a track or other surface, or when the projectile is inaccessible to a child when
it leaves the discharge mechanism, for example, bagatelle or pinball machines.

Robinson 发表于 2011-3-19 17:53

hewei 師兄, 這是 ASTM 的說法嗎?
但如果是 EN71
這些飛車應該要求 projectile clause 吧?
我看標準也沒有特別說明 hotwheels 這類不會計算在內
4.17.3 Projectile toys with stored energy
Projectiles propelled from a discharge mechanism shall conform to the following requirements:
a) The maximum kinetic energy of projectiles, when tested according to 8.24.1 (kinetic energy of projectiles)
shall not exceed:
1) 0,08 J for rigid projectiles without resilient impact surfaces;
2) 0,5 J for resilient projectiles or projectiles with resilient impact surfaces (e.g. rubber).
b) For projectiles in the form of arrows whose maximum kinetic energy exceeds 0,08 J, their impact surfaces
shall be protected by a resilient material (e.g. rubber). The maximum kinetic energy per unit area of the
resilient impact surface shall not exceed 0,16 J/cm² when tested according to 8.24.1 (kinetic energy of
projectiles).
c) -If a discharge mechanism is able to discharge an object other than that provided with the toy, the
potential danger shall be drawn to the attention of the user (see 7.7.1).
If a toy is capable of discharging a projectile with a kinetic energy greater than 0,08 J, the potential
danger shall be drawn to the attention of the user by a warning (see 7.7.2)..
NOTE In order to reduce the risk of eye injuries, manufacturers are strongly recommended

Aaronsun 发表于 2011-3-20 15:09

关于EN71的弹射条款的解释,可以去看一下附录部分Annex A22,你就可以找到答案了!

tassx 发表于 2011-3-20 22:41

EN & US 都说明了沿路轨飞走的不当弹射物。
但,W认为,在 ASTM F963 里,发射装置与弹射物是相互独立的,发射装置在任何情况下都要考虑,包括弹射物沿地轨飞走的情形,看其是否能发射 improvised projectiles,若能,则 fail;反之则 pass。所以总体来说,Clause 4.21 是没有 NA rating ,只有 PASS/FAIL!
对 EN71,尽管沿路轨飞走的不当弹射物,如果发射装置能发射 improvised projectiles 且不沿地轨飞走,则可能变为适用该条款,是否加个waring有待商榷。

个人理解!

哥哥在家 发表于 2011-3-25 11:03

引用第4楼tassx于2011-03-20 22:41发表的 :
EN & US 都说明了沿路轨飞走的不当弹射物。
但,W认为,在 ASTM F963 里,发射装置与弹射物是相互独立的,发射装置在任何情况下都要考虑,包括弹射物沿地轨飞走的情形,看其是否能发射 improvised projectiles,若能,则 fail;反之则 pass。所以总体来说,Clause 4.21 是没有 NA rating ,只有 PASS/FAIL!
对 EN71,尽管沿路轨飞走的不当弹射物,如果发射装置能发射 improvised projectiles 且不沿地轨飞走,则可能变为适用该条款,是否加个waring有待商榷。

个人理解!

交流:
首先,同意“EN & US 都说明了沿路轨飞走的不当弹射物。
”但认为“在 ASTM F963 里,发射装置与弹射物是相互独立的,发射装置在任何情况下都要考虑,包括弹射物沿地轨飞走的情形,看其是否能发射 improvised projectiles,若能,则 fail;反之则 pass。所以总体来说,Clause 4.21 是没有 NA rating ,只有 PASS/FAIL!”这不符合标准要求;在ASTM F963里发射装置和弹射物不是相互独立的,还存在NA的。如果认为该玩具是沿轨道(轨道和轨迹不同,有分别的。)的玩具,已经不会考虑4.21,故NA,更不会考虑该玩具是否可以发射其它提供以外的物体了。而考虑可以发射提供以外的物体的弹射玩具的前提下是,该玩具是考虑做条款4.21的测试。不属于该条款就没必要考虑“尽管沿路轨飞走的不当弹射物,如果发射装置能发射 improvised projectiles 且不沿地轨飞走,是否加个waring“
可能有的专业人士在EN71的弹射物术语里“object intended to be launched into free flight or a trajectory in the air“会解释为“被发射出去能在空中自由飞行或按轨道飞行的物体”,但是,如果这样解释的话,上面的EN&US不会一致考虑沿路轨飞走的不当弹射物了,只有US才会不当,EN是当的。事实上两个标准都不当的。所以我们实际工作是这样翻译的“被发射出去能在空中自由飞行或按轨迹飞行的物体”,例如非遥控的飞机的行径或轨迹,又如弹射枪的子弹等等。
说了很多,不知道是否清楚。。。有不当的请指正!

jiajia_xin 发表于 2011-3-28 11:07

学习了,都好仔细哦

tassx 发表于 2011-3-28 21:47

引用第5楼哥哥在家于2011-03-25 11:03发表的:


交流:
首先,同意“EN & US 都说明了沿路轨飞走的不当弹射物。
”但认为“在 ASTM F963 里,发射装置与弹射物是相互独立的,发射装置在任何情况下都要考虑,包括弹射物沿地轨飞走的情形,看其是否能发射 improvised projectiles,若能,则 fail;反之则 pass。所以总体来说,Clause 4.21 是没有 NA rating ,只有 PASS/FAIL!”这不符合标准要求;在ASTM F963里发射装置和弹射物不是相互独立的,还存在NA的。如果认为该玩具是沿轨道(轨道和轨迹不同,有分别的。)的玩具,已经不会考虑4.21,故NA,更不会考虑该玩具是否可以发射其它提供以外的物体了。而考虑可以发射提供以外的物体的弹射玩具的前提下是,该玩具是考虑做条款4.21的测试。不属于该条款就没必要考虑“尽管沿路轨飞走的不当弹射物,如果发射装置能发射 improvised projectiles 且不沿地轨飞走,是否加个waring“
.......
EN 71 A.22 Ground-based vehicular toys propelled along a track or other surface are not considered as projectile toys even if they include an element of motion in free-flight, e.g. between tracks.
Agree with u.

ASTM F963 4.21 These requirements relate to certain,but not all, potential, unexpected hazards that might be caused by projectile firing toys and by the firing of improvised projectiles from such toys. Certain well-recognized hazards that are inherent in traditional toys such as slingshots and darts are not covered by these requirements. The discharge mechanism as well as the projectile shall conform to the requirements
specified in this section after testing in accordance with the appropriate test methods described in 8.5-8.10 and 8.14.
Disagree with u.

The following definition FYI:
"trajectory": The curved path of sth that has been fired, hit or thrown into the air.
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